Curse

Rieselle · Jul 22, 2005, 01:03 PM // 13:03

I havent done a detailed search, but in my months of hanging around the sanitarium I've noticed many suggestions for various rogue/ninja classes, as well several very specialised/wierd caster-variations. And some unarmed brawler type classes. There's also a general acceptance that it would be good to have more melee-specialised classes. So I thought I'd try my hand in suggesting something that might be a little different, yet still fit well within the GW universe. Inspired by a certain character in the classic RPG Langrisser 4

(slight disclaimer. Dont pay too much attention to any example numbers for skill costs and stuff. I'm just making them up off the top of my head. Also, I wont bother deciding which skills will be elite or not. Those things can be worked out by testing.)

Class: Strategist. (or if you prefer, General, Commander, etc. But I like Strategist.)

Appearance/Armour: varies from formal-ish medieval military clothing, to light metal armor (eg, breastplate over heavy clothing, etc.) Armor values range from ranger's to slightly better than rangers. Lighter armours provide some energy bonuses. Strong against ranged damage. (piercing, elemental, etc.)

Role:As primary, provides a variety of "shout" style buffs and debuffs that affect the enemy and the party. Many defensive melee skills to protect against close combatants. As secondary, can be used for some buff support, or mostly to enhance melee abilities.

Purpose: I wanted a melee character that blended better with a caster secondary than the existing warrior. The 2 energy regen and small mana pool really limits the casting secondary. I also wanted a more energy-skill oriented melee class. As for a style reason, I like the "swordsman in normal clothing" look over the heavily-armoured look, being an anime fan and all that.

Special Skill types: depends on whether we are having new skill types for new classes, or whether new classes just reuse existing skill types.
*Battle Plan. (or Shout)
(Note: The effect of any battle plan ends if the Strategist is killed)
*Enhancement (or monk-style Enchantment)

Attributes:

This class has 3 pips of energy regen & an energy pool similar to a ranger.

** Primary Attribute: Influence.
This attribute increases the radius of effect of the Strategist's Battle Plans. At 0, they will be slightly larger than "adjacent", at 16, the radius will be 1.5 times the aggro circle.
Also, at 10 Influence, a fourth pip of energy regen is obtained. No further regen can be obtained from higher levels of Influence.

Skills in this line are powerful skills that will allow the player's teammates to turn the tide of the battle. They are probably mostly elite.

Example skills:

Spell Storm: 20E, 5s casting, 90s recast. Causes exhaustion.
Within 10s, the next offensive spell cast by target other ally will also be cast on 1..5 extra randomly chosen enemies within area of influence.

Overrun: 20E, 1s cast, 90s recast.
For 5..20s, affected allies gain 10% run speed boost and 33% attack speed boost. They do double damage in melee to enemies running away from them. The effect ends, for all allies, if any enemy "evades" or "blocks" an attack.

Assault at Range: 20E, 1s cast, 90s recast.
For 5..20s, affected allies have 10..50% increased range on their ranged attacks. Their ranged attacks also cause enemies to be Crippled for 10s. The effect ends if an affected ally moves.

Covert Mission: 10E, 1s cast, 90s recast.
Target ally and 0..2 allies adjacent to target become invisible and unable to be seen, listed with holding ctrl, or targeted for 5..15s. They move with 10% speed penalty. Effect ends for all if any affected ally becomes adjacent to an enemy, performs any action, or takes damage (eg, from AOE skills).

Preparing The Battlefield: 20E, 3s cast, 90s recast
All "traps" and "wards" performed by affected allies become instant cast, last twice as long, and recharge instantly. This effect lasts for 1..4 traps/wards, for each affected ally, before wearing off.

** Attribute: Duelist
This attribute substitutes for Sword and Axe mastery in terms of weapon requirements and damage. The skills in this line can be used with both sword and axe. (or alternatively, if we want to give this class a new weapon type of its own, then I'm thinking of light, single handed swords. Like rapiers, sabres, etc.)

Skills in this line are various defensive/counterattack style melee skills, and some conditional attacks. Emphasis is not on spamming attacks but on using them at the right times for powerful effect.

Example skills:

Brilliant Riposte: 10 Energy, Instant Cast, 45 sec recharge.
For 8 seconds, if target performs an attack, "block" the attack and Riposte ends. If the attack was melee, target takes 5..30 damage. If the attack was a skill, Riposte recharges instantly.

Guarding Parry: 15 E, 3/4 Cast, 30s recharge.
For 3..20secs, if your target is "attacking" an ally adjacent to you, you have a 75% chance to "block" the attacks. Does not work on spells.

Weakpoint Thrust: 15E, 3/4s Cast, 5s recharge.
If target is moving, or performing an action (attack, spell, etc) against someone other than yourself, you will perform a single normal melee attack with 50% armour penetration, and knock them down.

Eye Slash: 10E, 1/2s cast, 5s recharge.
If this attack hits, target is Blinded for 10..30s.

** Attribute: Defensive Planning
No inherent effect. Skills in this line are similar to "shouts" and create various beneficial effects for allies. However, these effects, unlike most buffs, usually require the allies to do certain things or behave in certain ways to get the full effects. All Battle Plans are instant cast. They affect all allies in the radius determined by Influence.

Phalanx: 15E, 5s recharge.
For 5..10s, all allies will receive the shield bonus from all other adjacent allies carrying shields. Allies carrying shields will have their movement slowed 50%.

Strategic Withdrawal: 10E, 45s recharge.
For 30..60s, all allies have a 75% chance to "evade" attacks from enemies in front of them, when they are walking backwards.

Take Cover: 10E, 30s recharge
For 10s, allies standing next to a landscape feature (rock, pillar, cliff, etc.) have a 30..60% chance to "Evade" any kind of ranged damage, from arrows and spells.

Harassment: 10E, 30s recast
For 5..15s, all non-spell attacks by affected allies will interrupt actions. Effect ends prematurely if any affected ally has an action interrupted.

** Attribute: Offensive Planning
No inherent effect. Skills in this line are similar to "shouts" and create various beneficial effects for allies. However, these effects, unlike most buffs, usually require the allies to do certain things or behave in certain ways to get the full effects. Most Battle Plans are instant cast, unless stated otherwise. They affect all allies in the radius determined by Influence.

Ambush: 20E, 5s cast, 90s recharge. 4 pips regen to maintain.
While maintaining this "enhancement" all allies become invisible, unable to be targeted, unable to be seen by holding ctrl, etc. The entire skill is interrupted during casting if any affected member is attacked. The entire skill ends prematurely if any affected member moves or performs any action. The entire skill ends if an enemy moves adjacent to any affected character. The entire skill ends if player runs out of energy.

"Hold!" : 5E, 2s recharge
For 3..8s, all allies do 20% extra damage and gain a 5% increase in running speed. This skill will stack with itself up to 3 times. However, the benefit does not apply until the skill "Now!" is performed. The build-up effect is canceled if any ally moves or performs any kind of attack or offensive spell.

"Now!": 5E, 10s recharge.
Activates the bonuses provided by "Hold!".

"One on One!": 20E, 5s cast, 90s recast. 1 pip to maintain
While maintaining this enhancement, all affected allies do 10..50% more damage to their target, if no other allies are targeting that enemy. An affected enemy will do half damage with attacks and spells to an affected ally, if that ally is not targeting that specific enemy. This effect shows up on the condition bars of affected enemies too.

Etc. Etc.

Constructive comments, further ideas, etc welcome.

Magus · Jul 22, 2005, 01:18 PM // 13:18

A great suggestion. Balance-wise, most of the skills are extremely cheap (e.g. spell storm + chain lightning.) But I like it because it's unique, and, given that the current 30 combinations of professions covers just about everything seen and done in RPG's, this has great potential for implementation (balance aside, but Arenanet will be able to take care of that.)

What I especially liked are the 2 planning attributes, and how their skills can negatively affect your team (e.g. phalanx), or can be wasted or cancelled if your team doesn't work together (e.g. "hold!"), and they really stand out. I think these skills should be elaborated more on if this profession is ever implemented.

Rieselle · Jul 22, 2005, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Heheh, thanks. Yes, I wanted to suggest something rather different from the standard stereotypes in american fantasy games. (I dont take credit, like I said, Langrisser 4! Yay!). Unlike the various Contraptionist/Psionicist/Ninja/Samurai etc. ideas floating around, I thought this at least has some chance of "fitting in" with the GW look/feel. (especially given the clothing that male Elems and Mesmers wear, almost formal miltary attire already :P )

Yes, whilst writing this I was beginning to think the effects were horribly overpowered. But they can mostly be easily toned down, or additional restrictions added. (eg... "All affected allies must be below 50% health" etc.)

Apart from the stated goals of adding another melee class, with a twist, and some unique support functions, I had 2 ulterior motives :P

1. I want to see a bigger deal made out of positioning, movement, teamwork etc. Thus the skills like Phalanx, "Hold!" etc.

2. I want to see mass lightning bolts / meteors rain down from the sky and kill everything in sight. I dont care how many restrictions ("spells also hit allies". "Can only be performed if caster is the last ally alive.") or how pointless and ineffective you make it ("spells function at 1/3 power" "causes exhaustion for each additional spell"), I just want to be able to see such a beautiful sight every now and then

Linkie · Jul 22, 2005, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Invisibility is a no no.

Rieselle · Jul 22, 2005, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linkie

Invisibility is a no no.

Even with restrictions placed upon it? What kinds of penalties would it take to make it acceptable to you? Can you elaborate on the reasons you dont like invis so much?

I guess I don't care too much about invis, tho. I just thought "ambush" would be an interesting strategy. "covert mission" I just threw in there at the last minute. So yeah, if I get to keep Spell Storm, I'd gladly ditch the invis related skills :P

BurningPants · Jul 22, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02

I doubt that they would put invisibility into the game. If they would, the draw backs would probably be the short time span and the fact that movement is hindered by a significant amount.

EDIT: Oops, didn't see that covert mission thing.

dog13000 · Jul 22, 2005, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linkie

Invisibility is a no no.

I think it could happen with a great deal of pennalty...

Something such as -3 health regen and -2 energy regen

This would prevent a long usage, and allow you to blur past those 6 mobs in the ring of fire.

---

Another solution to this would be a skill, with penalties as well... that cuts the aggro circle down to maybe 3/4, 2/3 or 1/2 the size, for a short (maybe 5..15 sec) time period.

Rieselle · Jul 22, 2005, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog13000

I think it could happen with a great deal of pennalty...

Something such as -3 health regen and -2 energy regen

This would prevent a long usage, and allow you to blur past those 6 mobs in the ring of fire.

---

Another solution to this would be a skill, with penalties as well... that cuts the aggro circle down to maybe 3/4, 2/3 or 1/2 the size, for a short (maybe 5..15 sec) time period.

I definitely dont intend the use of invisibility to sneak past PVE monsters. "Ambush" forces the invisible players to be immobile.

I'm regretting "Covert Mission" more and more. It's designed to allow you to sneak a subgroup out to do something sneaky, but given its potential to help runners and the like.... I've washed my hands of it. Pretend it's not there.

Tyrent Frath · Jul 22, 2005, 02:16 PM // 14:16

there would have to be limits on invis, such as "up to 1...3 adjacent allies"

as far as ambush goes, it would rape teams in GvG and HoH, or in any arena where you have time before you're actually seen.

A team of 2 S(strategist)/Mo, 4 E/Mo, and 2 Mo/E would easily win/hold HoH.

Bottom line

pros: something new, many possibilities, challenging class to use (because of nescessary teamwork)

cons: serious balancing isues, ambush would have to be {E}, several other skills would be {E} as well.

EDIT: disregard that, i didnt see the "no moving or making any action" which kind of destroys the worth of this skill IMO.

Rieselle · Jul 22, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrent Frath

cons: serious balancing isues, ambush would have to be {E}, several other skills would be {E} as well.

EDIT: disregard that, i didnt see the "no moving or making any action" which kind of destroys the worth of this skill IMO.

Yes, like I said, many of the skills would be {E}, I just didnt bother to figure out which. That's the sort of thing, along with other balance issues that is best discovered by lots of play testing, I think. I highly doubt anyone can create a well balanced game purely in their heads.

As for ambush, well, it's meant to be interesting, not effective. And it's meant to be an enabler to allow other skills to be more effective. Eg. A surprise multiple Ward Foes / AOE is much more likely to catch the enemy bunched up if they're running towards the front line, unaware of your presence. Or an ambush of Hammer/KD-Aftershock warriors in a group. Or even hide yourself in some out -of-the-way path, and when the enemy charges past, you charge ahead and gank their guild lord. And it requires some thought to use, since it has a long cast time and requires you to predict the enemies' movements ahead of time. (although that's not too hard with some maps, which only really have a handful of possible paths.)

Edit: Just had a thought, it'd also be interesting for the Strategist to have some skills that allow him to see the enemy's status in more detail, like reveal skills, see energy levels, enchantments etc. Not sure how useful it'd be in a fast moving game like GW, but it just popped into my head.

Rieselle · Jul 23, 2005, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Heheh, another use of spell storm that I'd dearly like to see is a necromancer raising minions from a bunch of corpses all at once

Oh - it just occured to me that a new form of abusive spike group would occur - multiple strategists + multi elems + multi spell storm casting chain lightning...

How to solve? Only one battle plan can be in effect at any given time? That would be a big disincentive to take multiple strategists tho - they might have trouble finding groups. Perhaps when a battle plan is used, any other strategists carrying the same battle plan will have their copy of the plan "used" as well, extending area of influence but not multiplying the effects (and thus causing it to recharge as well). I'd like to prevent multiple strategists from stacking / chaining the same battle plan over and over... the powerful plans in the Influence line are intended to be only available for use very rarely.

B3H · Jul 23, 2005, 02:37 AM // 02:37

How bout instead of invisibility change it so u can run past enemies for a certain period of time without them seeing/chasing after you

Rieselle · Jul 23, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

I dont know why everyone's so fixated on invisibility... is there a culture of cowardliness on MMORPGs or something? Heh, maybe "Ambush" should be changed from "Invisibility" to "Dig yourself underground". Hey, that would be fun to do wandering patrols of scorpions... see how THEY like it, huh?

Anyway, IMO the invisibility is the least interesting of the stuff I was talking about... yet is seems to have gained the most attention... surely people have good ideas for battle plans? I'dve thought there would be plenty of good, creative possibilities there.

Weezer_Blue · Jul 23, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

I like the concept. Some of the skills are funny though. "Quick! Do the moonwalk! I just used Strategic Withdrawal!" (while not attacking would be better

)

As for invisibility, if anyone deserves stealth, it's the ranger... infact, it was once going to be their primary attribute. But as it was changed, I'm guessing they won't impliment it for any class in the future either.

Willow · Jul 24, 2005, 02:19 AM // 02:19

My biggest concern is that if the primary attribute effects the radius of many of your skills, those skills (and practically the whole class) will be useless as a secondary profession.

However- good ideas with very powerful, but conditional skills- a very proteamwork class.

Rieselle · Jul 24, 2005, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willow

My biggest concern is that if the primary attribute effects the radius of many of your skills, those skills (and practically the whole class) will be useless as a secondary profession.

However- good ideas with very powerful, but conditional skills- a very proteamwork class.

Hmmm, I was thinking of that while I wrote it. I guess the problem is addressed in my mind, but not in my writing.

First of all, the Duelist line is pretty understated from my descriptions... I had trouble thinking up of skills that were significantly different from many warrior skills. (Since I was only putting "illustrative examples" in there.). However, in the real implementation, as always they'll probably fill it up with a lot of dross skills just to make up the numbers. In which case, one of my ulterior motives will be fulfilled... make a good 2nd class to "melee-ify" a caster class. With many defensive and conditional attacks, a melee-oriented secondary strategist wont need to take as much time off casting to do melee, and can also effectively have the benefits of a warrior's weapon attribute and tactics at the same time, without needing to spend points in 2 things.

2ndly, the minimum radius is "slightly more than adjacent". Putting aside the effectiveness of skills in the Influence line (just like Divine Favour skills are mostly useless to a secondary monk). I think a secondary Strategist might actually be MORE interesting to play. Since you might be ok in melee range, then your role would be to identify clumps of teammates that might benefit from a battle plan, move through the battle to them and help them out.

I think in terms of 2ndary/primary usefulness, a Strategist would scale like a monk... most people say "be careful of trusting a monk secondary for healing"... but everyone agrees that monk is a very useful secondary class for most classes. I guess it all depends on the specific skills that get created. Not all the battle plans have to be useful over large numbers of people, and not all the Offensive/Defense Plans have to be "Battle Plans"... they can be "Enhancements" or other stuff as well.

A primary strategist might play a little like a monk - stand back from the battle , observe, and push skills when needed. But a secondary strategist has to be a more active participant. And I like that

(I sometimes play an E/Mo with heal area as my sole healing skill. It's pretty fun to have to think about positioning yourself when you need to heal yourself, so that a friend or two gets it as well.)

Edit: Heheh, just a thought... in the (unlikely?) event that ANet DOES think a class suggestion as unique as this one is a good idea, and implement it, will they name all the things the same? Or will they just change all the labels around so as to not make it seem like they took an idea straight from the forums? :P

ManadartheHealer · Jul 24, 2005, 04:00 AM // 04:00

I love the idea...very creative. I like the idea of a "casting melee class" and another protection-type character.

Also, it beats all the "omfg ninja!!!" suggestions

Rieselle · Jul 24, 2005, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Teehee, Manadar, I think I saw you at Augury Rock yesterday... or maybe a copycat :P It's the first time I recognised a name from the forums in the game... I guess you guys DO exist after all, and are not just a figment of my imagination :P

I just popped on to LOL at another new sanitarium post I just saw... "Class Idea: Sneaky Rogue type"...

Geez, they REALLY REALLY like their invisibility, dont they?!?!

I dunno - when I think of a chaotic medieval battlefield, somehow I dont picture someone sneaking around on an open plain, stabbing unaware peoples in the back... they're far more likely to get brained from all sides with maces or run over by a horse or something.

As for in forests, or fog, etc. Well, any old soldier can hide in those conditions, and create an "Ambush" :P

As for backstab - there's a similar skill in the Duelist line... but notably, it's a "stick the enemy through the side whilst they're busy attacking your friend" attack, rather than a "sneak across open, clear terrain for 30 meters, walk behind a guy, and somehow stab him with a dagger through plate armor without him realising" sort of attack :P

Rieselle · Aug 20, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Hello, since we regularly get brawler and ninja class suggestions, I thought I'd bump my post for another looksee. Additional creative skill ideas for Battle plans are welcome. And ideas for Duelist skills.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Aug 20, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Skills Suggestion:

Duelist:
Groin Kick
(only works on male targets)
(target must be facing you)
"Touched target facing you is crippled for x...y seconds and takes +x1...y1 damage"
[does a kicking animation at the target's groin]

Very un-duelist move? Could be funz?